@RooferJ wrote:
I could. But why ? that dosent really matter now does it ? We all remember the old sales pitch that organic shingles were heavier and thicker than fiberglass, and they were. They also fail in average 12 years. Try bending some shingles in cold weather, or better yet apply some. I think the weight is irrelevant as long as they lay down well and don't blow off. The main issue we have with Certainteed is exessive loose granules and some shading problems.
@bcdemon wrote:
Myself I am going with Certainteed on my house. It has absolutely nothing to do with the weight and/or thickness of the shingles. It has to do with the fact that I install these almost everyday, I have also installed the GAF Timberline. The amount of granules that come out of a GAF bundle wrapper is scary, where the CT have very little to no granule loss.
They both seal up very well.
I prefer CT (mountainridge) ridge cap over any cap GAF offers.
That and the nail strip on a CT Landmark is 4-5 times the size of GAFs chalk line nail line (less chance of improperly placed nails).
Most manufacturers (CT included) use a dark strip of granules along the top of the exposure line to give that shadow effect, whereas GAF puts a lighter strip of granules along the bottom of the exposed part. This to me looks ugly and stands out too much.
@BigKutta wrote:
Is it worth going to the Landmark Premium over the Landmark? Would I be able to tell the difference? BOth are lifetime now
@RoofingTheMountains wrote:
I vote CT shingles all day, but don't get so caught up on the weight or thickness. Those are not attributes that always define a good product. For instance, a BDL of IKO shingles (30 yr Arch) weighs more than a bdl of CT same product but is not the superior brand. They simply have a heavier slag mixture, while CT actually has the thicker mat base.
In reference to the difference in looks between CT Landmark and Landmark Premium in Moire Black, it will be pretty close in appearance 'from the curb'. The Premium may look a little more 'chunky' but the real difference doesn't come out until you go to Landmark TLs. Shadow lines are less pronounced in black than other colors, but you will have more dark tabs as opposed just shading. A good supply house will get you a bdl of both (30yrs should be in stock in most cases) for comparisions.
Best of Luck!
@roof_lover wrote:
We are observing the same thing and coming to the same conclusions. I haven't used an IKO, so i can't comment about that. Here, the oakridge shingle is so much nicer than the timberline also. I am thinking that the atlas and tamko is pretty neck and neck here. I wasnt too happy wih my last 2 heritage batches. Both times, different colors, the nails did not sink into the shingle the way they beautifully sink into a landmark. the nails seemed to bust away the face of the shingle instead of sinking nicely into it. both jobs , i dont think it reached 60 degrees.
I might try them again now that it is getting warmer.And i am slightly upset with atlas since i have to continually watch out for mixed batch numbers and their black pinnacle is too dull.. other than that , i love the pinnacle!!Pinnacle also feels like quality when you are nailing into it.
@bcdemon wrote:
Anytime you can afford to get the better shingle, go for it. As far as telling the difference, the Premium is a thicker shingle so it may give a bit more shadow effect.
@JCarnes wrote:
You might want to look at the warranties offered by these two brands. Certainteeds warranty for defects is only 10 years at 100% coverage, it then prorates drastically. Where as GAF's warranty is 50 years of non pro rated coverage against defects. GAF also has the Golden Pledge warranty which offers 25 years of factory backed coverage on the contractors workmanship. This warranty covers all, including improper installation and flashing problems. So another words you will not be denied coverage if the roofer was not precise with the nail line. The only catch is the contractor must be Master Elite for the property owner to take advantage of this. GAF only charges 12 bucks a sq. for this warranty and it comes with an inspection by a GAF field representative. Definitely the best warranty available. View my website for a direct link to GAF's warranty page.
@Max_Baxter_Roofing wrote:
I agree, the amount of granules that GAF Timberlines lose even before they are taken out of the package blows my mind..I would definitely go with the Certainteed, although in my opinion OC Oakridge are just as good as any, but in your case this doesnt apply...If you only learn one thing from this forum it should be this: Any shingles that ends in ..ko (tamko or iko) is nothing but pure trash...I wouldnt roof Bin Laden's house with either of these brands...this is how bad they are...anyone on here that says these brands are good havent laid a whole lot of shingles
@RoofingTheMountains wrote:
Gotta do more research before you ou try to kill another warranty. Here's one huge difference, GAF still uses Lot #'s on product, when your local supply house doesn't give you all the same # and there's a color difference, that warranty doesn't do jack. CT has no lot #'s and warranties color. Everything is else is pretty equal. Thier SureStartPlus warranty is just as strong and sure as heck isn't $12 bucks a square, somebody's making a good profit on that...
@RooferJ wrote:
I personally like to stay out of the warranty game. We droped out of the mater eliete and select shingle roofer programs. I am really more interested in selling my business and our own warranty thats free. I always hated used car salesman, thats why I didnt vote for Obama or Mcain for that matter. :o
@BigKutta wrote:
For CT i am getting the SureStart Plus (20 yr) Plus 20 yr workmanship
For GAF I am getting the Golden Pledge plus 20 yr workmanship
Are you suggesting these are not equal?
@famous wrote:
Where do you guys live where roofs even last more than 10 years? Seriously. All the nice houses with insurance have their roofs replaced every 5-10 years. Hail & wind storms have been murder on roofs. Home inspectors will almost always require a new roof if it is over 5 years.
I think warranties and 30, 40, 50 year claims are pure Hogwash. I suspect cheaper materials....
@BigKutta wrote:
I guess Tulsa is a different story, but around here in the mid atlantic region, it normal for a roof to go 20-30 years. I am in the process of replacing by 22 year old Cedar roof. The warranties I outlined above are from reputable manufacturers and include labor for 20 yrs in the event of any defect
@wadman1 wrote:
here in CT most roofs i go to bid have been on for 20 to 25 years and there is still no leaks or just a small leak.
@kimboy wrote:
Anytime you can afford to get the better shingle, go for it. As far as telling the difference, the Premium is a thicker shingle so it may give a bit more shadow effect.
@system wrote:
The GAF/ELK shingles are junk. I have them on my 7 year old house and they are cracking and have a ton of granuals that are missing from the bottom edge.
Waiting for a hail or wind storm because I really don't want to have to pay for 50 squares out of pocket. Plus it's 33ft to the eave on half the house and has two terrets.
My CT rep did say he would give me any CT roof I wanted at 50% off...
As far as warranites only CT offers a warranty against blemishes of the shingle, the others don't. IKO, Tamko, Atlas, and Malarky are all LEAK ONLY WARRANTIES. CT, Owens Corning, and GAF/ELK cover deffects.
@RooferJ wrote:
If your GAF shingles are cracking " and I doubt they are" then you need to make a claim with them. All manufactuers had a cracking problem with there fiberglass matt shingles in the 1980's and some into the early 90's espeacially Bird "now Certainteed" . It was usually on there cheaper three tabs though. I do know that both GAF and Certainteed will make good on a claim, I have seen it first hand.
@system wrote:
I've thought about making a claim but there are not that many cracks YET. I'm not sure I can make a claim even. Here's the deal. House was built in 03/04 by a custom home builder for a homeowner/presold. The homeowner never paid the builder hence the house was never totaly finished. In 2006 the homeowner somehow arrange a ficticious sale of the property for about twice the value. The homeowner stayed in the house until the Sherriff booted him out in 8/08. On paper I'm the third owner but in reality the second owner but really the only owner to ever pay a mortgage payment, hazard insurance, and property tax.
To be totaly honest have not been on a 12 year old Timberline roof yet without several thermal cracks. Typicaly I see them occure by year 10. Possibly the harsh MN Winters and humid Summers have something to do with it? I've also seen the same on OC Oakridge shingle, one was cracked a lot at year 7. Haven't noticed it much with 10-12 year old Landmark shingles but don't get on that many from that time period.
BTW, your comment is great, very condecending. For the record. MY 7 year old house with GAF TIMBERLINE shingles has thermal cracks and excessive granual loss on the bottom leading edge. I will wait until all slopes have cracks so it's a more valid claim. Hopefully wind or hail will take the roof out before I have to deal with GAF/ELK. What's the most they will pay? $50 a square? I'm past the 5 year warranty so they don't have much warranty left. The roof got hit with 2in hail which made the typical huge impact marks in the flawed desinged ridge cap. The thick metal vents have dents in them but the shingles faired ok to be totaly honest. The roof had wind damage when purchased but fixed it with original shingles. The roofers who roofed the house did a very good job. Closed valleys cut straight, shingles straight, and ridge straight. No low nails and the repair I made had the nails were they should be. I wish the same quality was done on the hardi board siding.
@RooferJ wrote:
Didnt mean to sound condesending, but I have never heard of a GAF shingle cracking from that time period, and I have seen a lot of them. I know the ones in New England are made in Myerstown since they closed the Millis factory. I have seen a lot of loose granular and shading problems with CT Landmarks, there made in the old Bird factory.
@kimboy wrote:
Anytime you can afford to get the better shingle, go for it. As far as telling the difference, the Premium is a thicker shingle so it may give a bit more shadow effect.